Friday, October 20, 2006

Gate picket stepped up

Defiant protesters have stepped up their campaign against the landfill dumping at Hafod. A meeting of more than 60 local people agreed to organise all-day pickets of the site. The site is open from 7am-6pm during the week and until 1pm on Saturdays.

The campaigners already have a long list of breaches of the site licence and need extra people to help with this collection of information.

Please get along when you can and help fill the rota whenever possible.


At Friday, October 20, 2006 7:52:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope you all have stopped putting your bins out for collection knowing it will be tipped at landfill.
60 people. That is less than the number of loads entering the site in a day.

At Friday, October 20, 2006 11:43:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If that's the best the pro-Hafod brigade can manage... although it is after last orders on Saturday night.

Sinclair must be hoping that this will all blow over by Christmas so she can carry on catching the Cardiff
Bay-vy train after the next elections

At Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:27:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Look out for sneaky moves by the Carwyn Jones camp.
At the moment he is up against it good style.He knows that Sinclair will lose her seat next time around unless they can pull something out of the bag.
I think that the decision he makes will in no way be decisive but some sort of "blind" that will drag out the process longer whilst the promotion of karen sinclair gets under way by the local and national New Labour propoganda machine Also quite sadly this promotion goes on by some members of the Hafod protestors who don't waste a second in singing the praises of Sneaky Sinclair and Martyn(don't bother me with matters political)Jones
Look out for sneaky moves as well by Plaid Cymru.They are boasting that they are a viable alternative to Labour whilst at the same time they are working behind the scenes to establish a coalition with Labour in the Assembly in the event of labour losing seats in the May elections and the protest vote goes to Plaid.
It's a pity that there are no political parties who are seriously concerned about Hafod(the lib-dems and conservative support being even a bigger joke than Plaid and New Labour).
Even Marek can't be trusted...well would you trust a man who gives half a million pounds to a football club when there are kids starving all over the world?

Ultimately all of the politicians will let the protestors down and that includes Dave(I cant decide who to be today) Bithell and Nick(I have no objection to asbestos)Colbourne.
Ultimately the only thing that will bring about change are the protestors themselves.
Unfortunately we live in an age where local and national politicians are out to put their own careers first and dedication to voters second.

At Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:02:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Threats of violence.

False claims of vehicle offences.

You are a joke.

I am not pro-Havod nut you have lost my sympathy.

The gloves are off.

At Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:15:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


The gloves are off alright,and by the time they get put back on not only will Hafod be well and truly shut but lots of political careers as well as careers in the town hall will be well and truly over!!

We need neither your support or sympathy,we will win despite the macinations of local(yourself) and national politicians.

At Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:13:00 PM, Blogger dafad ddu said...

OK, I'm totally confused. With all these anonymous postings, who's calling who a liar? If people don't start posting coherent posts, then we will have to identify posters.

At Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:17:00 PM, Anonymous Tom Ellis, Trelogan said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:55:00 AM, Anonymous Maurice Jones said...

All these anonymous postings are very confusing. If people could give some sort of id it would make it easier to follow the thread of their arguments.
I would specifically like the second anonymous poster to identify them selves. If you are going to attack people by name it seems like cowardice to do it anonymously. It would also strengthen your argument if you tried using facts. Where do you get your information about a Labour/Plaid pact?
As a member of Plaid I can assure you we hate Labour almost as much as the Tories and the feeling is mutual. As I have said previously we in Plaid have been against this landfill from the beginning we have successfully campaigned against landfills in the past and will not stop campaigning against this one until it is stopped. We are the second party in Wales and South Clwyd. Any independent candidate is only going to let Labour off the hook. Most people that are outside of the Rhos/Ruabon/Johnstown areas won’t be voting on this issue.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:54:00 PM, Blogger Blodwen Fleer said...

Ironic that all of these Labour anons who claim to be against Hafod, ( It's Welsh, spelt with a 'f',not the anglicised 'v';Info for the irate, poisonous anon with gloves off,) are part of a Big Brother government forcing through ID cards and biometrics. You claim to not be for Hafod yet you are taking the pro Hafod/landfill argument, why? What's in it for you?
Who do you really think the aggressors are here? We don't need to lie, the evidence speaks for itself of MWH's bad practice.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:08:00 PM, Anonymous Bazza said...

I don't think it's right to slag off polititians who have always helped whenever they can. David Bithell is a bloody good councillor, ask anyone in Johnstown, it's a shame we haven't got more like him.
Labour don't like him cos he shows them up.
Others like Jill Evans and Janet Ryder have done a lot to help too. Real help not bragging about how much paper they have on their desks! TOP TIP:If you let it build up then your not dealing with it quickly enough. Get organized or get a paperweight and go on holiday.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:52:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Maurice

You asked here do you get your information about a Labour/Plaid pact?

Dragons Eye on the telly the other night where no less than three leading members of Plaid said they would have no problem with a coalition with Labour if it came to that.For gods sake stop fooling yourselves about Plaid,they are a sterile party of self preservation,in bed with big business and about as Socialist as Tony Blair.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 3:12:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now *that* is a lie... Rhodri Glyn Thomas was the only Plaid AM interviewed on Dragon's Eye and at no point did he say "Plaid should go into coalition with Labour". The other two were political commentators, who talked the idea up because it makes their lives more interesting. Go to the BBC website if you don't believe me.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 4:00:00 PM, Anonymous merv said...


I saw that Dragons Eye and was actually quite shocked.I didn't see three Plaid Cymru politicians suggest a coalition,but I did see Plaids Rhodri acting every bit the New Labour politician and not giving any straight answers on the issue.


At Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:04:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way Maurice,you still didn't answer my bit about Plaid being in bed with big business..I don't think you can.
Plaid have about as much interest in bringing about radical change in Wales as the man in the moon.Just look at the players,it reads like a who's who of the local CBI.
A positive rogues gallery of boring unoriginal upright citizenship.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:28:00 PM, Anonymous Maurice Jones said...

I didn't answer because it was beneath contempt to suggest Plaid are in bed with big business.

All of our money comes from our members, unlike the other parties. We were the only party the Electoral Commission didn't find had financial irregularities in a recent report.

Before you accuse Plaid of not being radical,boring and unoriginal, you should wait to see what our manifesto has to offer. The draft manifesto will be out in the next few weeks and we'll be inviting people like yourself to scrutinise it and suggest improvements. So, when the final manifesto comes out, it'll reflect the views of the people of Wales as well as our own core values.

A 'rogues gallery of upright citizens' is an oxymoron. If Plaid has upright citizens in it's leadership then that surely is a good thing?

So, Anonymous, what's your manifesto?

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:59:00 PM, Blogger JonDoe said...

'OK, I'm totally confused. With all these anonymous postings, who's calling who a liar? If people don't start posting coherent posts, then we will have to identify posters. '
Yes you are confused. We can agree on that. I am calling you liars, creating traffic offences that MWA have proof never happened. Congestion on the roads that simply is not there. Reporting offences to the EA that are totally false. People that I have spoken to, who live in Johnstown, told me that they cannot smell the landfill and have not seen any increase in dust or rubbish flying round. The vehicles entering the site do not come through the village and the A483 exit being so close makes the site ideal as far as traffic is concerned.
I will leave the politics to those who know but to say your campaign is gathering support is irrelevant as 1500 tonnes a day is being tipped.
I ask again. Are you still putting your bins out for emptying because that waste will be going to landfill?
But that landfill is not on your doorstep, is it?

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:11:00 PM, Blogger dafad ddu said...

I am calling you liars, creating traffic offences that MWA have proof never happened.
Care to give examples? Many people have seen (and not reported) dangerous driving by MWHoldings that almost resulted in a police officer being run over.

Congestion on the roads that simply is not there.

Has this ever been a major issue?

Reporting offences to the EA that are totally false.

Again, details please.

People that I have spoken to, who live in Johnstown, told me that they cannot smell the landfill and have not seen any increase in dust or rubbish flying round.

I think it's generally accepted that smells and vermin are at their worst on landfills in the summer. And the dumping has barely begun at the site, so it's unlikely there would be major problems at this stage. Perhaps others have different experiences.

The vehicles entering the site do not come through the village and the A483 exit being so close makes the site ideal as far as traffic is concerned.

You obviously weren't working on the day that the relief driver drove in via the village.

I will leave the politics to those who know but to say your campaign is gathering support is irrelevant as 1500 tonnes a day is being tipped.

MWH rushed to start dumping before the council made a decision. MWH is happy to ignore democracy because the vast majority of people in Wrexham (and Wales) are against this. If that's irrelevant, doesn't that say something about the state we're in?

I ask again. Are you still putting your bins out for emptying because that waste will be going to landfill?

People in Wrexham are recycling as much as they're allowed under the present council. Many of the campaigners against Hafod are also campaigning for a Zero Waste approach to rubbish that will see landfill reduced dramatically.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:35:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Maurice,

By it's very nature the so-called democratic process in this country is seriously flawed.The system of electing representatives is a farce and the whole idea of one person representing thousands of people is so utterley preposterous that it doesn't even deserve further discussion.(Or should i Just say that a clown in a dicky bow is supposed to represent me)

The political representation apparatus merely serves as a convenient tool to perpetuate the myth of democracy.
Plaid are little more than yet another political party attached to the the spectacle of non-representation.
Born of radical roots Plaid has turned in to a fart belching bunch of windbags in the pay of the state and doing very little to upset the status quo,whilst drawing their fat salaries.

The party is even distancing itself from Welsh seperatism and embracing Europe..(better salaries in Europe).
But lets get back to the nitty gritty of this story shall we.
You make the usual arrogent political assumptions that Plaid's agenda will represent what the people of Wales want...pass me the sick bag please.Shall I tell you what the people of Wales want...big houses...big bank accounts...enjoyable jobs...a meaningful life...a cracking health system a return from alienation and peace and love.
Now how the fuck is Plaid gonna dismantle the capitalist system to make all of these things possible.

There is about as much chance of Plaid or ANY political party delivering ANYTHING ever apart from crap economic/social system rotten from the ground up,that functions to serve the rich and keep the masses grinding away creating the wealth for the few.

If you think Plaid has got any motive other than an exercise in nest feathering then I suggest you bang your head against a wall, and who knows it may well knock those rose tinted glasses form off your head.

At Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:02:00 PM, Anonymous merv said...

So annon,

Are you a bit of a cynic then :)

My grandad used to say don't vote for politicians it just ecourages the buggers :)
He was right.And the only way this hafod thing is going to be decided is by politicians trying to save their own skins.


At Monday, October 23, 2006 10:20:00 AM, Anonymous Maurice said...

You may all hate polititians, but the only alternative put forward so far is a pig!

At Monday, October 23, 2006 12:09:00 PM, Blogger Blodwen Fleer said...

I for one would welcome more stringent recycling in Wrexham and others should follow suit. Cardboard and vegetable waste are 2 things that could reduce landfill further with very little extra planning. Many of us also make full use of other recycling facilities. The rubbish in my black bin has significantly reduced as a result, (and could be reduced further again with better initiatives) and although I do unfortunately still have some rubbish going to landfill (mainly cartons and yoghurt pots)I hope that with pressure and foresight from our councillors and local reps, this will eventually become a thing of the past.Politicians have a role to play in getting companies to reduce packaging and not encouraging reliance on landfill (through landfill tax?). Reliance on landfill as a solution is backward. The fact that landfill 'is there' is not a reason to endorse it.

At Monday, October 23, 2006 12:27:00 PM, Blogger Bren said...

I've just got back from North London where the recycling scheme admirably collects (as well as the things collected by Recycle with Michael) motor oil, used car batteries, old mobile phones, shoes and clothes.

However, my priorities for an expanded recycling scheme in Wrexham would be: doorstep cardboard collection, and collection of those plastics which are recyclable but which Michael won't touch: e.g. polystyrenes, polythenes, polypropylene.

At Monday, October 23, 2006 10:40:00 PM, Blogger JonDoe said...

Recycling is fine but when you collect the stuff you need customers to buy it. Car batteries, waste oil and clothes can be taken to any recycling park as they are now called. Cardboard is collected from there by Oswestry Waste Paper Ltd.
But what do we do with stuff that we cannot recycle? One of your group on the bus to Cardiff can explain the potato starch, just an example.
I will not give specific incidents re-alleged traffic offences as the threats of violence by certain members of the protest give me concerns about my personal safety.

At Monday, October 23, 2006 11:12:00 PM, Anonymous bin man said...

Which brings us back to the packaging industry. Packaging should only be made of materials which are either biodegradeable or which are re-usable or recyclable, (practically recyclable not just theoretically).

It's no good for cardboard to be collected from neighbourhood centres only, as people can't necessarily get it there.

At Tuesday, October 24, 2006 12:02:00 PM, Blogger Blodwen Fleer said...

As usual, the big changes needed are the ones Government and business need to embark on. Packaging and products need to be tailored to suit our recycling needs.
The public WANT to see a move away from products that are problematic to get rid of and have, in the main, shown desire to play their part.
One London MP removes all excess packaging from his shopping at the till, imagine if we all did that?
It's clearly a case of pushing our politicians and representatives to demand changes in how we buy and package goods. If they don't share that vision of zero waste, or are stuck in old fashioned thinking, then it is our duty to vote them out. For the sake of future generations who will have to deal with the legacy of their incompetance.

At Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:53:00 PM, Blogger JonDoe said...

Blod, even though it may not seem so I do agree with your comments but there is so much waste created by industry making products that modern living people are used to having that it is unlikely to ever happen. eg. televisions, fridges, freezers are a night mare for local authorities to dispose of.
Think back to BSE. and how many products were found to contain beef extracts. Similarly our every day products use componants to make them that create waste that is not recyclable.
The only way forward is to go backward. Grow your own food. Keep a cow for milk and a donkey for transport. No TV or PC. just read by candle light in the evening.
However. What is p..sing me off is the coruption surfacing within the protest group. The people making up the lies should get the Vicar to pray for them, the hypocrites.

At Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:59:00 AM, Blogger Blodwen Fleer said...

I can sympathise with the problems of disposing of electrical goods, many of which are only a few years old and the pressures on councils trying to dispose of them is real. They don't contribute directly to landfill however. The meat products do constitute problems with health, particularly with outbreaks of disease but I dont think driving contaminated waste many miles through countryside to dispose of it is a sensible option either. Councils need to develop emergency measures for dealing with their own contaminated waste/carcasses.
I don't think growing your own veg is a step backwards, it makes sense for those who can. I would like to grow my own, but where I live was landfill in the 50's and I wouldn't like to risk it.
Many component parts of electrical items could be salvalged/recycled including lightbulbs. We're not on candles yet!
I think your point is that there will always be items that are impossible to get rid of, and at present that seems to be true but we need to make the decision to stop and think...If we want a TV, how do we make one that can be broken up and the parts made useful? As I said before, industry and government need to take the lead here, public pressure is the start of that, which is what the Hafod group are doing, (must do).Without public pressure, protest groups etc, politicians will not bother to change; manufacturing industries and big business call the shots and people live with the diabolical legacy of that 'status quo', unrepresented and left to live in the decay of their communities . The days of the 'throw away culture' has ended, and Hafod is part of that change. We must start shutting these abominations down and start to act/ buy/ consume responsibly. NOW!

At Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:29:00 PM, Blogger JonDoe said...

I agree with most of your points made there but your use of the word contaminated is refering to what? If waste is contaminated with any hazardous substance it must go to designated hazardous waste landfill of which there are only 4. Smelmersdale being the closest.
I have contact with local industry on a daily basis and can assure you that the amount of waste going to landfill has been substancially reduced but I would say your protest would be better centered trying to get them. Try and get them to change but the fact is there will always be waste.
There is a recycling company in Sandycroft which opened about a year ago. They sort and pick through tonnes of waste but after they have picked out all that they can sell on to be reused, a fleet of artics are headed from there to landfill everyday.
Put as much pressure as you like on government but keep truth on your side if you want to keep support as those who tell lies about innocent people just doing their job will cost you credability.

At Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:39:00 PM, Blogger Blodwen Fleer said...


The fact we have waste is a reality I know, and the fact that only recyclable items that can be 'sold', rather than 'utilised' from recyclables must be addressed by government; enforcing strict rules that mean companies that don't recyle to a maximum quota are fined or not allowed to make items unlikely to be reused as part of their marketing (examples of possible actions).

By 'contaminated product', you have to accept that not every percentage of your load is known. People do throw batteries in their bins, along with paints, glues etc even though they're not supposed to. We are aware that MWH has problems with meat in it's composting scheme as reported recently.This creates huge amounts of methane which will add to the problems of Hafod and the mixed waste tipped there.
I'm afraid I don't know what lies you are refering to although I'm aware you have alluded to them more than once. I must say I don't personally understand your wanting to work for MWH and was disappointed in your response on the thread where you ridiculed the older protesters and ended with strange and rather malicious toned laughter. I felt it was your credibility, rather than ours, that suffered as a result.


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